Stone Oakvalley's Amiga Music Collection (SOAMC=)
The automated Commodore Amiga music to MP3 preservation project!
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FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions: 
There are bound to be people asking themselves why I did it THAT way?
This FAQ below will logically answer ALL those questions.  Q: "Cool, real hardware is the way to go, but what chip revision are you recording on?" Q: "Hey, my favourite tune is missing some audio, or it actually repeats xx times! Q: "Ouch! That 4 channel Amiga stereo separation is killing my ears! I don't like it!" Q: "Why the 224Kbps, stereo and CBR MP3 coding?" Q: "Why MP3? and not OGG, FLAC, Plain WAV or "that other personal favourite" format, dude?" Q: "Do you OWN the original music files and the music? Is this legal?" Q: "Can I use the MP3 files for anything else than listening to them?" Q: "What are the difference between A500 and A1200 sound?" Q: "Why did you not include the modules from AMP.DASCENE.NET?" Q: "But why do you do it? What is the gain? What's the use, its outdated material and old!" Q: "Do you guys earn any money on this? And, you know what...you could by adding banners!" Q: "Are there any world records involved in this project?" Q: "Can I send you my personal MOD files to be recorded into the SOAMC=?" Q: "What are the future aspects of SOAMC=, going to update it forever?" Q: "Where did you get all the original music files from?" Q: "Cool, real hardware is the way to go, but what chip revision are you recording on?" A: The chip used for recording is: "CSG 391077-01 - 8364R7PL - 5392 27" Unlike the Commodore 64, I would say the Amiga audio chip does not have any known reputation of producing different waveforms if the music was played on A500, A600, A4000 or A1200 (which was used for the entire recordings) except for a variation in the low-pass filter (wikipedia) which you can hear/see an example of below. But hopefully, you can get the real authentic sound from the SOAMC= project just as you remembered on your Amiga xxx machine :) Q: "Hey, my favourite tune is missing some audio, or it actually repeats xx times!" A: The tune lengths were extracted from DeliPlayer's (PC Version) (somewhat buggy) playlists. It was not the easiest job, but I managed to write some own tools for that. DeliPlayer's most excellent song length detection engine cannot fully support all files and therefore the time was left as 00:00 in the playlists. It might even detect the length wrong too, so to compensate for this, DeliPlayer on PC has its own playtime override which is by default set at 04:00. So, I did the same in my project. That could mean if the song contained some looping tricks or ended after 01:30, the rest of the MP3 file would either be silent or suddenly repeat itself and may then on the second or third loop just be cut off completely! Remember: The recording process and a lot of other things are automated, so I did not check each song for the correct length etc. For 100000+ files that would be a painless and quite possible an impossible job! So, enjoy what you got and may request a re-recording in our FORUMS! Q: "Ouch! That 4 channel Amiga stereo separation is killing my ears! I don't like it!" A: Yeah, I know. Listening to Amiga sound with drums in one left channel, strings in right channel etc is really no fun when listening in headphones. So, I did the incredible task of producing a second blend-mixed stereo version where each channel is mixed with the other at a 65% factor. That doubled the collection as easy math would indicate. It will give a more narrow stereo feel, but it would not freak out your ears so much as the original recording. Please note that we provide BOTH recordings in our collection. Recorded as-is from Amiga and one blended stereo-mix version as explained here. The results you can hear from these first recordings done for the project. This is the quality you can expect. Note that there is a couple of seconds of silence in the beginning, this will let you hear the actual noise from a real A1200 when the audio material was normalized to 100% volume. If you can't hear it, good for you! DOWNLOAD MP3 ->  A1200 w/Filter OFF - Imploder 4 - Original StereoDOWNLOAD MP3 -> A1200 w/Filter OFF - Imploder 4 - Blended StereoQ: "Why the 224Kbps, stereo and CBR MP3 coding?" (I used LAME 3.97 Command line version to convert the recorded wav to MP3) The magic line was: "lame.exe *.wav -c -h -m s -b 224 -q 2" A: CBR is constant bit ratio which means that a silent period in the MP3 have the same compression factor as a period with sound in it has. This results in larger size MP3, but size is NOT an issue here, and also it's supported by older equipment (which also represents the 224Kbps ratio) such as DVD players, Car Stereo MP3 players, MP3 players both software and hardware. It IS yesterday's compression scheme for sure, but not everybody are hip enough to follow the bandwagon and be cool and buy all the latest ipod MP3 players and do not care about dowloading the latest MP3 player software. SOAMC= is about compability in probably all environments and situations. If you are not still convinced why I took this decision, please read the interview with me in the September Issue of CommodoreFree -> www.commodorefree.com (This was for the SOASC= Commodore 64 SID recording project). That should get you head straight and make you stop and think and stop being so ignorant towards the choice of MP3 instead of OGG or any other format! Q: "Why MP3? and not OGG, FLAC, Plain WAV or "that other personal favourite" format, dude?" A: It was a totally egoistic and personal choice. This is afterall a PRIVATE project intented for my own amusement. MP3: It's the most common format for all kinds of people and hardware. End of story. OGG: Might be better with those "unhearable high frequencies that you would NEVER miss if you had nothing to compare too anyway!" End Of Story. FLAC: Why should I? Better go real WAV instead, and also FLAC is a non-typical format that are not "all over" compatible "all over" everywhere. End Of Story. WAV: That would be dream, yes. But it would take 10 times as much space and would be a ridiculous waste! I really can't believe if anybody would be unsatisfied with the SOAMC= audio quality of the MP3's. Those higher frequencies you claim to be issue with the MP3 are frequencies in the approx 18000Hz-20000Hz range. Do you know what KIND of sound that is? PS: Your dog will, but not you my friend! If you are not still convinced why I took this decision, please read the interview with me in the September Issue of CommodoreFree -> www.commodorefree.com (This was for the SOASC= Commodore 64 SID recording project). That should get you head straight and make you stop and think and stop being so ignorant towards the choice of MP3 instead of OGG or any other format! I have no further comments. Q: "Do you OWN the original music files and the music? Is this legal?" A: No, we do not own the original music files or the distribution rights to them either. We have posted a CLEAR statement of copyright on our site. They MOD/music files were downloaded/copied off other archival sites out there. If they provide the music as is, so can we. They provide it to be a preservation and or archiveal project, as also we do. We played them back on our equipment and stored the results as it played on a real Amiga. The MP3 files generated and processed we own. The music and definition of themes and compositions within the MP3 files is of course the original composer's copyrighted work. MOD files made by composers like myself which made these tunes either for the fun of beeing "out there" or for demos or other projects. A majority of the MODS/Music files was posted to Aminet and thus ended up being considered as Public Domain, but of course the music which is hearable when executing the file from within a player is copyrighted to the original composers. Do we own the distribution rights for any of the MODS/Music files or music material?. Yes, but only music created by ourselves which is found under the composers names as "Demonoid" and "Sv". Everything else is copied from other sites or from music collections posted in the public domain. For the commercial games, we have no idea how they can be posted on other sites. If they did it and they are available, so can we. Remember that the other sites out there have copied the music from Aminet and other projects where people have gathered together MOD/music files without even asking the original composer. As with some of my modules, these were found on AMP I never knew they would be included on. I posted my modules in 1996 to Aminet, thats it. Today they can be found traces of within the AMP collection. But that is the story of Public Domain and people going into executeables and ripping out the music. Do I care? Yes, if I feel that I'm not comfortable having these files available on other than the original intent, which for me was Aminet, I would ask to get these files removed instantly from all other sites. And of course so can the original composer/copyright holders of their music do too. It's their music material and must be respected. For the MOD or music files that come from games we do not know how the legal issues apply. These files are clearly downloadable from a number of MOD/Amiga Music databases out there so whatever they can spread and host, so can we. If they go down or are asked to remove the material from the copyrights holders, lawyers etc, well... so it can result that our MP3 files will be made unavailable online too of course. The MP3 files will be deleted from the online collection and the trace of it removed, but _NEVER_ deleted from my collection as this is _my property_ and shall remain so until the end of time. And to further bring to the conclusion that we are not here to fruit from others work, we have a number of clear RULES that differs from other hosters out there, such as: 1: We accept *NO* donations for either hardware, bandwidth cost, the work involved, for the good will of the project etc. Be that the donation would be money or just other physical objects. NOTHING was EVER requested and NEVER will. Donate to the composers instead is our RULE! 2: We have NO ADS whatsoever, never had and never will. No Google ADS, no graphical banners, no commercial stuff that makes us earn a cent or penny or half a dollar or 0.00001 in any currency at ALL by using our site. 3: We generally just want to make the music material be presented as MP3, because that is today a very common format to present music in all genres. Using dedicated players can be ackward on todays modern operating systems, and even some will not play music correctly if not done on a real Amiga. This is now overcomed by presenting them as MP3 material instead. 4: We pay for the bandwidth to get access to internet. Since that is fairly cheap and provides a lot of IDLE up-bandwidth here in Norway, we host this collection from our homes just because we love the music and the people who have created the music. Call it addiction or just for pure nostalgic reasons. We have good jobs, earn good and have NO intentions of making money in ANY way on these projects. They are temporary hobby projects...and we do got other hobbies too so don't expect a lifetime of dedication here. 5: We will never compile parts or the entire MP3 collection onto DVD's, HD's with the intent of making money on it. Even if it "just" covers the work involved copying them and for the media material used. How the MODS ANATHLOGY #1 cd can be sold by ANYONE is beyond our understanding. There must have been some pennies earned here and there and that is not legal. So, again we will never do anything to earn a single value for hosting this collection and the MP3 files. Q: "Can I use the MP3 files for anything else than listening to them?" A: No. The MP3 file you download you are only allowed to listen to there and then. But, to extract parts of it or use the whole music material, use it in multimedia productions etc, you must either use common respect for the Public Domain copyright rules or contact the composers directly about your intentions for the music material. The MP3 file as it is presented with the tags is our property. We created the MP3 file. You are not allowed to modify or change the MP3 tags within it, re-save it in a way that clearly differs from the original MP3 filesize or structure. If the intention of fixing a bad MP3 tag or that you want to improve the copyright information, this is allowed. If you copy the MP3 file to your server and make it available online, you must specify that the MP3 files WAS recorded by the SOAMC= project (provide our link the the main site) and the copyright for the music material is the original composers property. This must be taken out of the MP3 tag and placed together with the MP3 file download link on your site. Q: "What are the difference between A500 and A1200 sound?" A: Nothing to be concerned about I would say. I did some tests, shown here are the difference in spectral views (Adobe Audition 1.5) of A500 vs A1200 (with and without filter) recording along with the actual MP3 files. The tune used was Imploder4 by Paul van der Valk. There is some noise in these recordings as a nearby small CRT was creating the noise (the line across). This CRT will be off during recording, the main focus here now is the crispness of the audio and comparsion of volume/crispness for A500/A1200 with and without filter.  The A500 have a little lower output volume than A1200 and the spectral view shows less crisp audio than A1200. DOWNLOAD MP3 -> A500 w/Filter ON - Imploder 4 - Stereo The A1200 have higher volume than A500 and you can see some less filtering going on in in the spectral view, meaning the sound should be a more crispy than A500. DOWNLOAD MP3 -> A1200 w/Filter ON - Imploder 4 - Stereo The A500 a little lower output volume than A1200 and the spectral view shows less crisp audio than A1200. DOWNLOAD MP3 -> A500 w/Filter OFF - Imploder 4 - Stereo The A1200 shows a significant increase in the crispness of the audio as the spectral view shows and also of course higher output volume than A500. DOWNLOAD MP3 -> A1200 w/Filter OFF - Imploder 4 - StereoEND CONCLUSION: The A1200 w/Filter OFF are the most crispest of all audio examples. This is the format that are going to be used for the entire project. Q: "Why did you not include the modules from AMP.DASCENE.NET?" A: Actually I did at the introduction of the project in Dec2007-Feb2008. But after they read my e-mail which took them 3 months to find, the literally told me the following sentences why I could not proceed with the recording of already material in Public Domain. I asked them for an official statement and to stand for their comments, they never appeared so I created the statements for them. These are basically what they told me. "Somebody wishes that people listen to real modules instead of MP3s." "Somebody wants me to remove ALL the MP3 that originate from modules downloaded in AMP." "I'm allowed to use them for private use only" It surprises me that they actually manage to instruct me to NOT download my own modules from their site (composer:demonoid), record them as MP3, post them on my site and show a reference to AMP where they come from. They have most likely taken over ALL distribution rights on behalf on all the composers. I do not need to say more. These are all idi*tic statements which has the following consequence: I will make it my TOP PRIORITY to gather a huuuuuge load of modules from other sources and record them to MP3 to try and "heal" the loss of AMP. And it did indeed result in even more modules to be recorded, so hehe. But, the choice of listening to modules or mp3 is the USERS choice and nobody else, we just give them an alternative source to be able to listen to the musical pieces. The amount of music that I will dig up will be greater in amount of modules than the actual loss of the modules downloaded originally from AMP. So, thanks to the lack of co-operation from AMP, I was forced to expand the project even more... well nuff said so... Enjoy the SOAMC= project, Amiga music fans! For reference, here is something from their FAQ: "Can I export part or all of AMP's music database and use it in my website?" "Definitely NOT! It's our work and it is not meant to be use by any other website or person. Shall I remind you that it's copyrighted material?! We appreciate that you like our website a lot but tell your friends about AMP rather than try to steal our work." http://amp.dascene.net/faq.php Q: "But why do you do it? What is the gain? What's the use, its outdated material and old!" A: For starters, you are missing one word in the end there. It should say; "old school". That is about the things that matter when you grew up, what made you what you are today, your memories and your experiences with the Amiga will be back again to say hello with the help of remembering the past and the old school days. Remember, todays equipment will be old school in 20 years, so its all about remembrance and the joy of "what was". There is no gain, except the result of the real authentic Amiga sound:). This was an electronic and inventive challenge that I just HAD to do. Challenges make character, and it is incredible fun to be able to be creative and set no limits, what a boring life if not. Therefore, I just HAD to do it, and also because I have so many good memories from the Amiga days that I would like to experience today in other situations and I still get a kick out of it. It's about human exploration and playing with your mind. If you don't understand, you're a zombie and have lost yourself...and that can't be repaired. Sorry. And if you compare and think you just made the comment of the day like; "why have xxxGB of Amiga music when I can have all the files in 2.2GB instead on my PC" (typical newbie statement), you are REALLY lost and have no idea or concept of the SOAMC= project is all about. You are probably one of those guys who start a lot of projects and never finished them....thats not me, so respect that and the AUTHENTIC sound of the SOAMC= project! Anyway, apart from that I do not trust ANYTHING else than the real authentic Commodore Amiga playing the music. I do not want to listen to music not intended to be played on anyting else than the original Commodore Amiga's. A lot of people seem to forget this incredible important detail when discovering the SOAMC= project in general. It is just the hunt for the real authentic thing, and I stress that too much. AUTHENTIC SOUND IS ALL! Q: "Do you guys earn any money on this? And, you know what...you could by adding banners!" A: Earn money on this project? Are you out of your mind? Hosting this kind of massive collection online is really easy...if one cared to do it the right way! And so we did, no CRAP - just pure, clean, serious and the tunes ready for download. No strings attached, no nags, no ads, no shit. This is a respectful archival project for the Amiga fans which includes myself and the website should reflect that. So by bringing in a bunch of Google crap ads, stupid search engines plugins or ANY other kind of third-party webcode/functionalites beyond what I MEAN in my greatest belief would bring my site on a level that would be similar to SO many other archive sites out there is REALLY important. This site should be clean and 100% our design/functionalites only! If something would be added it should benefit the project.... Just a heads up, that I am VERY aware of what clean and serious concept/projects are all about! Death to banners, commercial ads, google ad crap etc. that DOES NOT benefit the project in question! Earning money on this project (in any way) would be subject to law as we do not own the tunes and are they are of course copyrighted to their respective composers/companies, so there will never be any banners or stuff making us rich on this. NEVER EVER, WE ARE SO CLEVER! In very simple words: WE ACCEPT *NO* DONATIONS : DONATE DIRECTLY TO YOUR FAVORITE COMPOSER INSTEAD! We will never be like *any* other similar site out there, we set an example of what FREE means. Q: "Are there any world records involved in this project?" A: Hehe, well not officially recorded by Guiness Records but I guess my Commodore Amiga 1200 suffered the longest playback of music in the entire history, around 1 year 24/7! Q: "Can I send you my personal MOD files to be recorded into the SOAMC=?" A: No, don't. We do not plan to update and produce a futuristic update of Amiga modules. Either use Modland.com or AMP.DASCENE.NET for that matter to let the world know your music. The SOAMC= project was a snapshot recording archive only done once in a lifetime. The work involved exceeds far greater what one man single handely could normally do, but Stone Oakvalley pulled it off anyway during Q1 2007 and Q1-2-3 2008. Q: "What are the future aspects of SOAMC=, going to update it forever?" A: There will be no future updates going on for SOAMC=. The project is a once-time project. After the SOAMC= recordings are done they will not be updated to reflect the changes of ExoticA and Modland in future, they do their job very well with the original Amiga files and must be allowed to continue their great work. SOAMC= should only be considered as a snapshot recording archive done in a given point of time, meaning Q42007/Q12008. The work involved exceeds far greater what one man single handely could normally do, but Stone Oakvalley pulled it off anyway during Q1 2007 and Q1-2-3 2008. Q: "Where did you get all the original music files from?" A: The files were downloaded from the ExoticA and Modland websites, along with a download of the Mods Anthology #1 cd's. I have electronically written permissions from both ExoticA and MODLAND to present their collected and organized work as MP3 files on our website. In a sense our website is also considered as a snapshot mirror of these sites, along with the entire mod/med tracker based contents of the MA#1 cd's. |